It is currently Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:47 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:20 am
Posts: 303
Maura wrote:
Perhaps a good definition of appropriation is wanting the cool bits of a culture but not wanting any of the people that practice that culture. Wanting to coexist with the people and learn more about them and share in customs is a cultural exchange and a melting pot. Discarding the people like garbage and keeping the shiny bits is appropriation.


I wish everyone got respect instantly, but it's unrealistic. 'Appropriation' is exchange. Nobody will stop to track down and overanalyse where something came from; if they like it, they'll take it, just like with anything. It's spontaneous, inevitable and actually may help bridge the gap.

_________________
Only if we are free can we reach our full potential.

To be selfish means simply to be yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2800
An 'exchange' implies that both parties are benefiting from the interaction. This is rarely the case with appropriation.

I'm not saying that it's not going to happen. I'm just saying that it's shitty.

_________________
“First they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” -Martin Niemöller


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:20 am
Posts: 303
I'm responding after I did a bit of extra research into cultural appropriation whiner mindset.

You're all wrong. Because you use collective responsibility and generalization. It seems as if you presume that the people who jeopardize eg. black culture are the very same who are 'appropriating' it and that they represent all whites as a uniform whole. It's wrong to presume also that, say, I need to police the media for (in)equality in order to learn from other cultures. Having skin tone similar to mine, doesn't make me responsible for someone else's attitudes. They're individuals and sh*t in their own right. Being of white race doesn't mean you're of 'white culture', whatever the hell that locally and temporally is.

You're wrong to prop up artificial walls between the products of human mind and spirit - they've always flown freely and they do so now more then ever, in the age of globalization. These products are independent of the people who originally came up with them, obviously because they would have ceased to exist. They're often independent even of the culture itself.

The matters you speak of are not matters of cultural exchange (a.k.a. appropriation), but racism, stupidity and in case of hijab the question of secular state, also. All these do not interrupt cultural exchange - irl, the exchange of inventions, ideas etc. There is no such a thing as cultural appropriation, especially in the realm of art and fashion.

_________________
Only if we are free can we reach our full potential.

To be selfish means simply to be yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2800
... So your argument for participating in appropriation of oppressed cultures is "but I'M not racist!"?

Well, great. Good for you. But actions mean things. You don't get to be the arbiter of how your actions are interpreted. If some fuckhead wears a t-shirt with a rape joke on it, he's going to come across as a misogynistic asshole, even if he swears that he's only wearing it "ironically".

You may not personally be racist, but we live in a culture (in Canada, the USA, Australia and large parts of Europe, at least) that prioritizes white people over people of color. And white people, even non-racist white people, benefit from this culture. So you can't really claim to "not be a part of the problem", because you live in a racist culture and reap the benefits of racism.

So even if you, personally, would never, say, think that the indigenous people of North America are all drunk, worthless leeches, the fact that there's plenty of people who do means that wearing a feathered headdress generally is interpreted as you being just fine with the current (and appalling) state of affairs facing those people.

I don't see how you can argue that appropriation and racism are unconnected with each other. Appropriation is just one aspect of racism.

Additionally, given your opposition to the idea that 'exchanges' might be limited, I presume that you believe that all art should be free? Artists should not be paid for their work, yes? Ideas and concepts have always flowed freely, and so demanding payment or respect for a creation is just wrong.

Creating traditions and style and art takes work. Maintaining and curating culture and tradition takes work. Taking art and culture and styles that are not freely offered, without obtaining permission or providing any kind of recompense (and particularly taking the art while spitting in the face of the creators of it) is at best plagiarism. And it's shitty.

_________________
“First they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” -Martin Niemöller


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:20 am
Posts: 303
Culture is product of human mind and spirit, not of one's biological/racial traits and it belongs to the whole mankind.
That is not racism. Racism is denying people their fundamental universal human rights based on skin color (in our example). You insist on mixing the two. They are related, but still independent.

Quote:
Ideas and concepts have always flowed freely, and so demanding payment or respect for a creation is just wrong.

Creating traditions and style and art takes work. Maintaining and curating culture and tradition takes work. Taking art and culture and styles that are not freely offered, without obtaining permission or providing any kind of recompense (and particularly taking the art while spitting in the face of the creators of it) is at best plagiarism. And it's shitty.


1. Most cultures are not an invention of the current generation. It's accumulated work of many generations and not of all the members of the particular collective contributed. Foreign influence was likely also at work. There's no valid copyright owner and even if there was, the copyright ended looong ago; now it is in public domain.
2. Culture, art and science are in the depository of mankind's collective achievements and everyone gets to access it and use it. That's the point of public domain. Suggesting anything else is racism to my mind, as it separates people based on race/ethnicity and denies rights of an individual human being.

Quote:
And white people, even non-racist white people, benefit from this culture. So you can't really claim to "not be a part of the problem", because you live in a racist culture and reap the benefits of racism.


No. Law denies the concept of collective responsibility.
I did not create that 'culture' and it's not my culture. Racists did it. Very specific individuals. Address them as individuals for their own actions. I gain nothing from racism, they do. Every democratic citizen has moral duty as a citizen and human to help others within the limits of his/hers own ability by peaceful and legal means, but that doesn't make us responsible for the crimes of other people. You can't blame me that there's a ton of racist rednecks who are nothing to me, backed by the people I did not put in power. You can blame any person for not doing their part in the struggle for fundamental human rights, but you can't really blame someone for being white and thus automatically some 'part of the problem'. But this is somewhat of a moot point as there's no 'em copyrights.

These are just some nonsensical guilt-trips, which reek of racism to me. Every person based on their skin color (especially white) is presumed and OBLIGED to be of a specific isolated culture, despite living in a melting pot. There is no such a thing as pure cultural prescription lol Cultures and people merge and change, it's a natural process. We are one after all. Get over it. :P

_________________
Only if we are free can we reach our full potential.

To be selfish means simply to be yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2800
Quote:
I gain nothing from racism, they do.

White people are more likely to be hired for jobs and are more likely to be paid more. They are more likely to be be given credit and accepted for rental accomodations. If you are white, you benefit from these things, even if you do not wish to. (Same thing happens with men versus women, too. Men benefit from existing in a sexist culture, because they are favored over women by our system, even if they do not wish to be.)

I'm not saying that white people should constantly be flagelating themselves because of this, nor that they are to blame for this. But they are a part of it. They can't just say "hey, I'm not like THOSE white people" and then proceed to act in a way identical to THOSE white people and expect everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:
Law denies the concept of collective responsibility.

Like I said before, it's totally not illegal to appropriate to your heart's content. Doesn't mean it isn't shitty. There are plenty of asshole behaviors that are 100% legal. They're still asshole behaviors. (Also, holy shit. You mean a legal system made by the winners of history denies responsibility being placed on those winners or their descendants? I am shocked to hear this, truly.)

(Additionally, there's plenty of appropriated things that have been developed within the 100-year rule for public domain. Rock and roll, for example.)

You seem to be interpreting what I'm saying as "no one [particularly white people] should EVER adopt practices or art from other cultures ever!!!1!". That is not what I'm saying. I'm 100% behind cultural exchange and appreciation. But I think that cultural exchanges should be an EXCHANGE. That both sides should benefit from the interaction. That both sides should be INVOLVED in the interaction, as opposed to one side grabbing the shiny things and running off with them. That the exchange should be used to facilitate better understanding and appreciation of other cultures, as opposed to either perpetuating negative stereotypes of the people, or scrubbing all hint of the people away from the cool things. That cultures have some say in what aspects of their heritage are made into commodities.

IMO, we can't all be considered 'one' until the systemic discrimination that is inherent in our culture can be expunged, because, no, not everyone has the same experiences and not everyone has the same struggles and we can't fix it by going 'we're all the same anyway, lol'.

_________________
“First they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” -Martin Niemöller


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:20 am
Posts: 303
Maura wrote:
Quote:
I gain nothing from racism, they do.

White people are more likely to be hired for jobs and are more likely to be paid more. They are more likely to be be given credit and accepted for rental accomodations. If you are white, you benefit from these things, even if you do not wish to. (Same thing happens with men versus women, too. Men benefit from existing in a sexist culture, because they are favored over women by our system, even if they do not wish to be.)


So we should all go live in tents, nibble grass for sustenance and stop working, because _______(insert group here such as: unskilled workers, homeless, etc.) are disadvantaged, so it would be discriminatory if I took an opportunity they don't have. We're all people and have basic needs/problems and can't afford to pass the opportunities up. We can no doubt speak of racial discrimination (!), but not automatically of white privilege as well, as the opposite side of the coin. Just being white doesn't make you privileged, as you may face severe discrimination and rights violation on the basis other than your race (sex/gender, sexual orientation, social status, mental/physical health issue/disability etc.).


Quote:
They can't just say "hey, I'm not like THOSE white people" and then proceed to act in a way identical to THOSE white people and expect everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt.


They can. A person who beats a black to death for being a 'filthy subhuman monkey' is not identical to someone who treats other individuals respectfully, politically involved or not.

Quote:
Like I said before, it's totally not illegal to appropriate to your heart's content. Doesn't mean it isn't shitty. There are plenty of asshole behaviors that are 100% legal. They're still asshole behaviors.


It's not sh*tty, some people are just of backwards and weird view on the issue. Sheer personal and commercial use of these goods doesn't mean one in any way represents or should represent the culture it was derived from or the people who identify with it, because culture and human invention somewhat overlap, but ultimately they are independent of each other.

Quote:
(Also, holy shit. You mean a legal system made by the winners of history denies responsibility being placed on those winners or their descendants? I am shocked to hear this, truly.)


You mean the legal system that granted us all fundamental human rights, including the right to be persecuted for crimes only oneself has committed? The smallest minority is an individual and that's against whom you're discriminating here.

Quote:
That is not what I'm saying. I'm 100% behind cultural exchange and appreciation. But I think that cultural exchanges should be an EXCHANGE. That both sides should benefit from the interaction. That both sides should be INVOLVED in the interaction, as opposed to one side grabbing the shiny things and running off with them.


Both sides can take each other's shiny stuff and run off. It all belongs to everyone.

Quote:
That the exchange should be used to facilitate better understanding and appreciation of other cultures, as opposed to either perpetuating negative stereotypes of the people.


Negative stereotypes are results of a deep willful ignorance among the rednecks & co., that simple complimentary history class attached to a bowl of tikka masala won't fix.

Quote:
IMO, we can't all be considered 'one' until the systemic discrimination that is inherent in our culture can be expunged, because, no, not everyone has the same experiences and not everyone has the same struggles and we can't fix it by going 'we're all the same anyway, lol'.


We are not the same, but we are one, as we share the same basic needs, equal treatment we give to each other as individuals, open communication and basic respect (which dissing individuals based on their skin color/social status for actions of others and systemic problems is not).

_________________
Only if we are free can we reach our full potential.

To be selfish means simply to be yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2800
Thunder wrote:
So we should all go live in tents, nibble grass for sustenance and stop working, because _______(insert group here such as: unskilled workers, homeless, etc.) are disadvantaged, so it would be discriminatory if I took an opportunity they don't have.


I literally just said that white people aren't automatically to blame just because they have advantages that other people don't. My whole point was that systemic racism does grant white people benefits over people of color, and that white people can't claim to be completely separate from the system just because they aren't personally racist. (And they also can't claim that they get no benefits from living in a racist culture that prioritizes white people's needs.)

Context is important. Cat-calling, for example, is a lot more threatening when men do it than if women do it, because men have a historical precedent of escalating catcalling and street harassment into worse things, and because men do it at a much more frequent rate than women do. Catcalling by men is more harmful than catcalling by women, because of context and systemic discrimination. Same goes for appropriation.

Quote:
Just being white doesn't make you privileged, as you may face severe discrimination and rights violation on the basis other than your race (sex/gender, sexual orientation, social status, mental/physical health issue/disability etc.).


White people can absolutely be disadvantaged on other axes of privilege. But that does not mean they do not still have the advantages granted to white people for being white. A black man does not face discrimination because of misogyny, and a white woman doesn't face discrimination because of racism, even though they both still face discrimination. And a black woman faces both racism and misogyny.

White people can suffer from systemic discrimination in the form of homophobia or ableism or classism or sexism or transphobia or a whole slew of other bigotries. But so can POC, and they do that on top of suffering from racism.


Quote:
Quote:
They can't just say "hey, I'm not like THOSE white people" and then proceed to act in a way identical to THOSE white people and expect everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt.


They can. A person who beats a black to death for being a 'filthy subhuman monkey' is not identical to someone who treats other individuals respectfully, politically involved or not.


But racism is not limited to literally murdering people of color. There are plenty of racist and discriminatory behaviors that are less extreme but still contribute to a hostile atmosphere towards POC. And people can't read your mind or know your intentions.

For example, if there's a dudebro who consistently refers to women as 'bitches', or cracks sexist jokes, etc, then he's going to be seen as a misogynist by at least some women, and potentially dangerous. Maybe he'd never beat a woman, but there are plenty of violent people out there who also call women bitches. And this guy is either one of them, or he's making it more difficult to spot the dangerous ones because both harmless dudes and dangerous dudes engage in the same unpleasant behavior.

If a white person dresses up in, say, a blatant ripoff of Native American apparel, especially something that was used in sacred or special traditions, they are at best saying "I don't give a single fuck about the history or meaning behind this and I believe your culture is something for me to consume as I please.", and more likely saying something like "Indians are nothing more than caricatures and not real people and I don't give a single fuck about the discrimination that they are facing, and in fact likely support it." It contributes to a hostile environment where human beings are treated as, or feel that they are treated as, commodities instead of people.

Of course, the far more odious appropriation is committed by large corporations who make or attempt to make millions of dollars off of selling stereotypes or plagiarized work. Because the corporations have far more power and impact than individuals.

Quote:
Sheer personal and commercial use of these goods doesn't mean one in any way represents or should represent the culture it was derived from or the people who identify with it, because culture and human invention somewhat overlap, but ultimately they are independent of each other.


But culture is a human invention? Can you elaborate?

Quote:
Quote:
(Also, holy shit. You mean a legal system made by the winners of history denies responsibility being placed on those winners or their descendants? I am shocked to hear this, truly.)


You mean the legal system that granted us all fundamental human rights, including the right to be persecuted for crimes only oneself has committed?


The legal system that incarcerates black and brown people at an exponentially higher rate than white people? Yeah, that one. I was unaware I was not allowed to criticise something because it has good elements as well as bad ones.

Also, I'm not criticising white people for being white, or for having privilege. I'm criticizing them for appropriation, if they participate in it. Because, you know, that's an action that they choose to take as individuals and can be held responsible for.

Quote:
The smallest minority is an individual and that's against whom you're discriminating here.


So I'm supposed to only hold individuals accountable for things that they personally have done, but also I'm not supposed to discriminate against individuals because they are 'the smallest minority'? Sounds legit.

Quote:
Both sides can take each other's shiny stuff and run off. It all belongs to everyone.


If you say so, but even if that was the case, the playing field is not level.

Quote:
Negative stereotypes are results of a deep willful ignorance among the rednecks & co., that simple complimentary history class attached to a bowl of tikka masala won't fix.


There's plenty of racism via non-wilful ignorance too, simply because people don't understand other cultures or have little exposure to them. And yeah, having more representation of cultures produced and guided by those cultures isn't going to fix all racism ever. But it might help fix some of it.

Quote:
(which dissing individuals based on their skin color/social status for actions of others and systemic problems is not).


I'm not dissing people for the actions of others, I'm dissing them for activities they willingly choose to participate in, i.e. appropriation.

_________________
“First they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” -Martin Niemöller


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:20 am
Posts: 303
Maura wrote:
Thunder wrote:
white people can't claim to be completely separate from the system just because they aren't personally racist. (And they also can't claim that they get no benefits from living in a racist culture that prioritizes white people's needs.)


Yes, but the system isn't a hive mind (for worse or better) and we can't blame every single person for what goes on, especially given the plethora of systemic problems and the limits of individual power to change it.

Quote:
Same goes for appropriation.

No. Cat-calling is an attack on a person (that in addition indicates potential physical threat). 'Appropriation' is at worst attack on someone's goods, assuming it's their private property to begin with.

Quote:
White people can absolutely be disadvantaged on other axes of privilege. But that does not mean they do not still have the advantages granted to white people for being white. A black man does not face discrimination because of misogyny, and a white woman doesn't face discrimination because of racism, even though they both still face discrimination. And a black woman faces both racism and misogyny.


Calling whites privileged on such basis alone is farfetched. Privilege is a buzz word and a big word, heavily emphasized. Too much pressure is put on people for one axes of privilege. The white privilege whites have may be minuscule compared to their respective individual circumstances. White privilege is like a guilt trip and it works poorly irl as it boils down to white=privileged= your life is nearly perfect. It is often taken out of context and it's toxic.
People are more likely to be put off and loose their respect for the issue and its spokesmen. The vocabulary I'd stick to is racism/inequality/discrimination of people of color.


Quote:
If a white person dresses up in, say, a blatant ripoff of Native American apparel, especially something that was used in sacred or special traditions, they are at best saying "I don't give a single fuck about the history or meaning behind this and I believe your culture is something for me to consume as I please."

But culture is a human invention? Can you elaborate?


Their position is sad indeed, but I feel that lashing out for the use of goods is a mislead lashing out against the maltreatment of people. Also it's counter-productive, bitching about 'appropriation' is going to disconnect people even further. Appropriation is claiming that something someone other than you came up with is your exclusive property, which this kind of concept of culture is about.

It would be a long elaborate, but in short products of human mind and spirit such as art and science (knowledge in general) belong to everyone. Many elements of culture are just that (fashion, literature, visual art, food etc.) and they are independent. It all can be taken out of the context of the culture it was originally part of and used effectively. No crime there.
Cultures are changing and fusing, which should resolve this issue eventually, but it's not fast enough for my taste and needs.


Quote:
The legal system that incarcerates black and brown people at an exponentially higher rate than white people? Yeah, that one. I was unaware I was not allowed to criticise something because it has good elements as well as bad ones.


Criticizing is fine by me. I guess this is just an impasse, but as ever I appreciate the quality discussion and your quality feedback none the less!

_________________
Only if we are free can we reach our full potential.

To be selfish means simply to be yourself.


Top
 Profile  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm
Posts: 2800
Thunder wrote:
Yes, but the system isn't a hive mind (for worse or better) and we can't blame every single person for what goes on, especially given the plethora of systemic problems and the limits of individual power to change it.

I don't know why you seem to keep insisting that I am blaming white people for having advantages that others do not. That is not my point. It would be stupid to blame someone for something that they cannot help, and as I said, white people cannot help but be prioritized in our culture, even if they do not want to be.

However, white people on the whole have more power than non-white people, and that means they have more capacity to do damage to others, and should be aware of that.

As a metaphor, imagine that there are some people who have cars, some people who have bikes, and some people who are pedestrians. If someone with a car runs into someone on foot, or someone on a bike, the people without a car are going to suffer the brunt of the damage, and it will be much more extensive than if someone on a bike or on foot ran into them. And even if someone on foot had a running start and karate-kicked a car, the damage to the car and the person inside is likely to be minimal. It's not necessarily the fault of the car drivers that they were given cars and others were not, but the car drivers do have a responsibility to try to avoid mowing down people who don't have the same advantages that they do, while we work on trying to develop a more equitable system.

Quote:
No. Cat-calling is an attack on a person (that in addition indicates potential physical threat). 'Appropriation' is at worst attack on someone's goods, assuming it's their private property to begin with.

All right, how about I use objectification as a metaphor instead? All those ads and media and stories that present women as prizes and objects and sexy non-individuals? And how 'objectification' of men is a significantly less harmful act, because men are not regularly dehumanized in the same way that women are? It's not a direct attack on any woman in particular, and hey, using women's bodies to sell products has no troubling implications whatsoever, right?

Aside from plagarizing ideas from other cultures and limiting their abilities to turn a profit off of their own heritage, if they so choose; aside from treating important and sacred traditions as nothing more than commodities; appropriation also often feeds into negative stereotypes of other cultures and races and contributes to the overall dehumanization of those people.

Quote:
Privilege is a buzz word and a big word, heavily emphasized. [...] The vocabulary I'd stick to is racism/inequality/discrimination of people of color.

Hey, you're the one who first used the buzzword 'privilege', not me. I was sticking to 'discrimination' before then, because, yeah, I've had too many people freaking out about the use of the word 'privilege'.

Quote:
Too much pressure is put on people for one axes of privilege. The white privilege whites have may be minuscule compared to their respective individual circumstances.

Perhaps, but this case in particular is a matter of one culture grabbing goods from another culture, and often cuture and race are closely related. Therefore the main consideration with regard to what harm may come about from this action should take into account the differences that race/culture in particular have. If we were discussing, say, student loan debt, then class would be a much more relevant axis of privilege to consider. Or if we were discussing rape and reproductive rights, then sex would be a much more relevant axis to consider. But we are talking about something that is deeply connected to race and culture and thus race should be taken into account during this discussion.

(Also, I'm not terribly interested in delving into oppression olympics, but you can take a look at this study if you want to see how race impacts the expected wealth of folks, along with the impacts of education and age: http://www.ncsl.org/documents/labor/wor ... _31420.pdf)

Quote:
White privilege is like a guilt trip and it works poorly irl as it boils down to white=privileged= your life is nearly perfect.

No. It just means that other people face specific challenges that you do not.

Quote:
Their position is sad indeed, but I feel that lashing out for the use of goods is a mislead lashing out against the maltreatment of people.


If someone behaves in a manner that implies that they are uncaring of the feelings of other people (especially a group of marginalized people), then it can generally be inferred that the person can be expected to not care about the mistreatment of those people, either.

Quote:
It would be a long elaborate, but in short products of human mind and spirit such as art and science (knowledge in general) belong to everyone. Many elements of culture are just that (fashion, literature, visual art, food etc.) and they are independent. It all can be taken out of the context of the culture it was originally part of and used effectively.

If the playing field were level in any way, shape, or form, I may agree with you.

Quote:
No crime there.

You seem to be very focused on the idea of 'blame' and 'crime'. Do you believe that I am arguing that if someone appropriates something ever that they are some kind of unforgivable monster that should be dragged out into the streets, tarred, and feathered? Appropriation is (generally) a microagression that can make marginalized people feel alienated or taken advantage of, and it's kind of a dick move. It's not a hanging offense, by order of the High SJW Council, or something.

_________________
“First they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I said nothing—Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” -Martin Niemöller


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group