Hi Harry.

As for handling parents and family, it was not easy, trust me. We just had to shut the pressure out for a while, and really, really talk to them. They'd counter our arguments with "what's so difficult about it? We raised kids, after all" routine, but we actually got my MIL to see the child-rearing horror stories that weren't part of our childhood.

I think with her, what did the trick was, we got someone to tell her about school kids and MMS scandals
I know it is wicked, but the poor, gentle woman was mortified. We've not heard a pip out of her since on the subject.

Kidding aside, you know what, I actually know lots of people who are childfree... some by choice, some due to various other circumstances.

One friend of mine, a very conservative, middle class girl mind you, married at age 33 to a man aged 39. When she was younger, she didn't want to marry at all, and wanted to adopt, but later on, she, like me, grew to like the cf lifestyle. Her husband (found through a matrimonial website) shared her no-kids taste (they were reluctant to bring it up first, fearing each otehr's reaction), and they are happily married now.

So, I think a lot of people have doubts about having kids, but don't talk about it, fearing people's judgement and criticism.

Another couple, much older than me, have been married for nearly 10 years now, don't want kids. I personally know at least 4 or 5 people in my immediate circle who have chosen not to have kids, and again, I repeat, these are perfectly "normal", conventionally brought up people with average education and other metrics. That is something heartening for me, and gives me hope for our country.

But what's most interesting is, while most people do react with shock when I tell them I dont plan to have kids, the fact is, so many married people around actually don't have kids, even if they didnt plan to be child free. A good friend of mine, age 33, married, no kids yet, keeps telling herself and everybody else that she'll have them at some point, nothing happening yet. Career, financial goals, no time, and so on. Ditto for at least 3 or 4 couple that i Know. At least 2 couple I know are infertile. In our immediate circle of married friends comprising of 6 couples, there is just 1 baby. That is 12 adults to 1 child, think about it. 3 couple don't want kids, and 2 have fertility issues.

Further, I have a total of 5 married cousins, and only 2 have kids - 1 each.

The point I am trying to make is, either by choice, or by infertility or by permanent postponement ("I dont want to face the truth that I dont want kids, so I'll just postpone the decision year on year"), people are actually having fewer or no kids.

Add to this all those people whose marriages fail before kids, or stay unmarried till too late for kids etc, and really, kids are becoming rather few and far in between. Our parents and family react with shock, but the truth is, one way or the other, the cf thing is already happening around us.

For the CF guys and gals here looking for a partner, look again. The costs (physical, mental and financial) of child rearing is too heavy on women, and a lot of girls are waking up to that truth now, but are afraid to commit to that in public, for fear of being called selfish. You are sure to find someone if you look in the right places and ask the right questions.


Do you not observe the same thing? Please do comment.
Don't you see that around you?

So I'm the 5th CF from India!

I just registered today after seeing this post in a google search. I had an unpleasant argument with my parents on issues related to marriage/children, came back disturbed, gave a search in google on CF in India just for some reassurance (when I got first concrete thoughts on CF as a community, almost five years ago, and had joined the US based e-mail group of childfree-dot-net, I could find nearly zero result on this google search of india plus CF), found your post. An year or so ago I had seen a few google-links about the rise of CF people in India.

About myself, I'm 33+, female scientist currently in Mumbai. I have never had any feelings to have children (my parents report I never played Mom when I was a kid ), and I'm sure that I don't want to bear or rear. Being so sure of this had some imprint on my love life too! , some men just ran away,

I have a few friends (all men) who believe in CF, and have known one or two women who were neutral about it. But if you're neutral in the Indian circumstances, you end up Mom and that happened to them for sure.

Well, I'm elated to see at least a few of you here. I'm sure the number is rising, as Sandy_C said at the end of her post. A lot of them, covering all age groups are hidden in our population, and I wish they'll come out to a forum like this slowly.

-R.

@Sandy:

Thank you for sharing your experience. It was just like I thought it would be - it's so difficult to convince parents about CF, it's like something that they just can't imagine. MMS scandals- wow. indeed.
The only thing that surprises me is the number of CF people you seem to know. Where do you live?? I would like to meet some CF people in real life, I don't know any CF people around me. I lived in Mumbai for 6 years for my Medical Graduation and I didn't meet any CF people.
I think the reason for this is what you say - "lot of girls are waking up to that truth now, but are afraid to commit to that in public, for fear of being called."
People think something is wrong with you if you are married but don't have children. This attitude is more prevalent in the rural people than urban, I think.
How do you deal with nosy relatives and co-workers and neighbors?



@ resh_xyz:

Wow. Welcome to this forum. So glad to know a scientist from aamchi Mumbai. I would be thrilled to meet more CF people from Mumbai. Where do you work?

In the town where I did my undergraduate college degree, most of the students from India stayed in one apartment building. There were so many Indian students in this apartment complex that it was dubbed the "Indian Embassy.'

Here's hoping for the same on this forum!

I'm really surprised that I seem to know more CF people than seems normal... Let me give you some demographics with religion and ethnic info, in case it helps:

I am a Hindu raised, agnostic tamil-speaking bangalorian by birth, but was raised in conventional, conservative Chennai, where I live now My husband (christian raised, atheist) is a tamil Chennaiite too. Of the CFBC people I know, one couple is in chennai -she is malayalee, he is tamil, both practicing hindus, but they are born and brough up here. Of another cfbc couple, the husband is malayalee (christian raised, agnostic) but chennai-brought up, and the wife (hindu raised, atheist) is tamil but mumbaikar.

A third couple, my cousin and her husband are now in London. Thwy are both practicing Hindu tamils - she is from Chennai and he is from Mumbai. She is a bit conflicted right now, he is clearly cfbc, and is hoping her conflict wont last for long.

A fourth couple, both Hindu tamils, is also chennai based - the guy was cfbc in a mild way, and told me he was relieved when his wife had fertility issues.

A fifth couple, both practicing Hindu Malayalees from kerala, are cfbc and in UK currently. She is very cfbc, he is neutral.

Of a sixth couple, the wife (Hindu raised, agnostic) is tamil from chennai, the husband is Punjabi. They live in Delhi. These wont call themselves cfbc - but the wife is 32 plus, and I frankly think they are in denial, and kidding themselves with the "later" game.

I have a friend called Amit (atheist, I think) , a mumbaikar who is militantly cfbc, I'll bring him over to this forum.

I know this seems disproportionately a southern phenomenon, but you must allow for the fact that sine I live down south, my leads are all likely to be southern.



Initially, we used to be naive and frank about it:

- So when are you planning to have kids?
- We aren't planning to have kids.
-What?? (Shock/ Suspicion/ Pity/ Anger followed by lots of patronizing bs)

Over the years, we've got sneaky, and this, typically, is the routine now:

- So when are you planning to have kids?
- We aren't planning to have kids.
- What??
- Oh, I mean we don't want to have kids of our own. When we feel ready, we will adopt a child in need of a home. (note emphasis on "When" )

- Oh, how wonderful! We need thoughtful, progressive youngsters like you!

The End.


Sneaky, yes, but it saves us a lot of grief, trust me. I honestly do wish that couples considered about adopting before giving birth - as a gesture towards containing population, protecting the environment, or at least to save the woman the physical nightmare of pregnancy.

What do you think?

@Harry, I'm not a mumbaikar, I moved here an year ago. I live in South Mumbai, what about you?, send me a PM.

Especially in India, I believe there's a great need to be more vocal about being "child free by choice". People, even those who are capable of free-thinking otherwise, assume children to be an inevitable outcome of a marital life. It's all the more so because of our tight family system. People can't imagine a life without children, they will probably feel empty. When you're young assume the soul of your life to be your children, and when you're old get entirely emotionally dependent on them. The circle completes. As always the conditioning is more on women, even when they're the major 'beneficiaries' of all the pain. That makes me amused.

The kind of responses I've got from my female friends were at times aghast : "you are a shame for women" (Come on! please, is procreation the essence and aim of a woman's existence?). This response came from an otherwise progressive urban raised 23yr old researcher colleague of mine. Another friend of the same qualifications reacted : "you should rather meet a therapist and fix it".

I myself would not perhaps have thought of a CF lifestyle if I hadn't seen a few couple at my workplace, practising the same (there were also a good number of couple without biological children, and one couple with one biological and one adopted child). I was fortunate to live in a progressive set up and question some fundamental assumptions that have gone into our society. (I'm also surprised to see Sandy's list of CF friends. So there're stuff happening privately, in isolation, just that no great awareness). I would like to see CFBC spreading here as an awareness, through media, through word of mouth etc. etc. I do not have webpage or blog at the moment but once I make it, I'll do my bit. We're already a few, we could even think of something together. My reasons are just that I feel for this society, I see it being too conditioned and conservative and I get upset.
What say you?

@ Conditiongreen:
are you an Indian too?

@ Sandy:
Who knew there were so many CF folks in the South? I wish there were more in the west.
Thank you for the demographics, I think there is some association between agnosticism or atheism and being CF. I don't want to be labelled but I say I am an agnostic when pushed against the wall, since I don't actually practice any religion. (I like studying all the religions of the world though)

I am glad to have had these few days relatively free to participate in this forum (otherwise I wouldn't have known all you guys!), but I am going back to my schedule now, so I won't be logging in for a month at least.

Tata!

Here's a question.

Especially in India, the difference in quality of live between the childfree and the childed (!!) is pretty stark, in my observation. Has there been significant impact on your career and financial decisions because you are CF?

What's the most noticeable difference, would you say, between your life and the life of a childed person in your life?

For me, it is time and relative financial freedom.


For example, after working full time in training and communication for about 10 years, I now work part time, flexi hours and from home. The money is lesser, but I don't need too much, since responsibilities are fewer. With my spare hours, I do music, i read a lot and so on.

Travel is a major hobby, we trek, bike, dive... My husband and I take 10 day vacations twice a year for our travel interests. We both work, are not rich and need our jobs, but we feel all these are possible only because we are CF.

I'd love to hear about your CF lifestyle...

I agree, I've noticed the association too. At one level, I think it might be so because agnostics/atheists often tend t be rationalists, and from a rational perspective, kids don't fit, right? This is not to say that religious people are irrational, but I think the reverse is very often true.

Secondly, I think there may be fewer explicitly religious people who are CF, because there is so much emphasis on childbearing and rearing in religion... It is often considered a religious and moral responsibility to procreate...

Yes indeed. I would also like to add that some people who are Christian, like me, are moderates. I do not follow everything preached to me. I am a moderate Catholic. I believe in birth control. I believe in the right to choose. I would never judge anyone who doesn't believe in God or someone who doesn't share the same beliefs for that matter.

It is important for people to realize that there are Christians like me who aren't trying to convert others, who are not die-hard-bible-thumpers. We ARE out there.

_________________
"Living well is the best revenge"