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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:46 am 
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Can a population decrease at an 'explosive' rate, be more of a dribble wouldn't it...unless dynamite was involved (if only)?

Anyhoo, I couldn't give a flying fuck if humanity died out, good riddens to it. The sooner it stops it's infestation the better. As for breaking the law, well they'd have to catch me first and I have a fast car and an aggressive driving stylee! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:29 pm 
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The answer regarding whether or not I'd agree to this is obvious: Of course not. Nothing would ever change my mind about having children. If I had to break the law, so be it.

I'm more curious about how the law intends to "force" childfree women to have children and I'd like to bounce that question back at the guest that asked it. Would we be drugged/held down/impregnanted? Is this the type of scenario you are describing?

-Rowan


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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:03 pm 
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The OP's question is one of those that can frequently infuriate CFers, because at its core is the presumption that a person can be CF because others are having children and carrying on the species. They give us the luxury of being able to choose to be CF.

However, when faced with the hypothetical prospect that humans are dying out, then the assumption is, "Oh, well, no one wants that to happen, so it's time to give up this choice and start making babies." In other words, it's time to stop being frivolous and start being responsible adults.

What I don't like is the idea that it's only because the breeders are doing their job that we can be CF, and that we, in a sense, owe them for our lifestyle.

The other thing I don't like is that it's perceived as a choice that can easily be set aside, similar to choosing a sensible dessert over a decadent one: "Oh, I know the Triple Chocolate Cookie Sundae Shake would taste great, but I'm getting a little older and I can't work off the calories like I could in the past. Better just have the apple."

It's not a choice. It's who we are. No amount of making it illegal can change that, just like making same-sex practices illegal ever shut same-sex relationships down. It's who. We. Are.

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:36 am 
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Good points CO, I didn't infer any particular implications from the OPs question but I totally agree...For the life of me I don't understand why people think humanity is worth saving and why anyone would shelve their deeply held (and usually innate) principles for the sake if it.

In the 'Children of Men' scenario I reckon it would be the CF who would be doing the most to continue a 'normal' lifestyle, because that's what they're doing already, no new kids wouldn't change that. That fact that we don't have descendants doesn't stop us from doing our jobs, paying our taxes, cleaning our homes etc etc. We have no skin in the game of the future but we do it anyway, we still have lives to live regardless.

It's interesting to me that it's the breeders who turn on each other, throw up their hands and society descends into chaos as a result of their inaction to maintain what's already there for the time they have left.

I haven't read the book, but I saw the film and all I thought was 'that's breeders all over, they're not getting what they want so everyone else can just get fucked'. But also it never states in the film anywhere that the dystopia is as a result of no kids (not as far as I can recall), I think that's an assumption made by some of the audience. My take on it was the world was fucked and as a result people became infertile...You know, rather like what's happening already apparently, men are becoming less fertile.

I thought of it as natures way of stopping the gallop of overbreeding.

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:16 am 
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CarryOn wrote:
It's not a choice. It's who we are. No amount of making it illegal can change that, just like making same-sex practices illegal ever shut same-sex relationships down. It's who. We. Are.


Hi CarryOn.
This comment of yours really hit me hard because it is right on the mark. What you wrote in this small simple statement is such a meaningful thing to me because it is exactly what people are not understanding when I explain that I am childfree.

This is a little off subject but approximately a year ago I had a brief pregnancy scare. My cycle was 9 days late. I took a test at that point and it came out negative. And wouldn't you know, the next day my cycle arrived. But I remember that at the time it was about a week late, I confided in my best female (childed) friend about how worried I was that I was late. Her response was so weird. On one hand, she sympathized with my worry, on the other hand, she began to make comments like "Well.. what are you going to do if you are pregnant?" And when I expressed my relief after my period started, her response was one of slight disappointment. She said something like "Oh... well you know I'm a little sad because I LOVE BABIES."
I remember being very taken aback by this comment. I have known this girl my entire life and never wavered from my childfree stance. I was 39 at the time of this scare, so there were many childfree years to make one feel confident that I "mean it". And still, she really really just did. not. get it.
What I did at this time was gently but firmly tell her something very close to the following: "It really hurts my feelings that you would make a comment that way. What you need to understand is that, pregnant or not, there will BE NO BABIES. If I got pregnant, the only decision to make would be how quickly I could schedule the abortion. I would do it immediately if I could. The only reason I was so worried is that I hate and fear medical procedures, but make no mistake: There is no question and no choice here. There WOULD BE AN ABORTION."

I think she got it after that, but my point is this: My friend and posters like the one that started this thread are no getting the fact that this is not a choice or decision to be made. We are childfree just like homosexuals are homosexuals. This is not something we can be talked out of or change our mind about. Like you stated, CarryOn, it is intrinsic to who we are.

-Rowan


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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:49 am 
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I call recall my cold vein of fear and dread, as I 'got' the vulnerablity of my position as a childbearing aged female, and societies attitude to me. I would need to proactively and specifically take back any possibilty of being made to breed forever. Tick.


Last edited by theotherhelen on Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:17 am 
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I totally get the annoyance at the ASSumption here but I do know of 2 people who consider themselves CF, who think it's important that people have kids and are quite happy for things like child benefit and subsidised childcare to continue. I must confess I feel there is a question mark over their CFness - I don't think they'd abort, whereas I'm like Rowan and CarryOn - I can't change being CF any more than I can change my sexuality.

I notice the OP hasn't come back! Something I'm curious about, esp re the raising of this particular film, is what exactly people are worried about and why they think a decline in population would actually lead to such chaos? My guess - maybe an ASSumption! - is that they are worried about this because they think it would be total chaos. If the world was suddenly wiped out, right now, in the blink of an eye, by an asteroid or something, they might be less concerned but it's the fact that they think people will suffer in a reduced population that is the problem.

I would honestly volunteer to finish myself off if we were short of people to care for the elderly and so on. Life seems to be terribly important to some and not to others and I like the idea of control over my life anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Yeah, I'd prefer death to pregnancy (plus I have depression, anyway), so...


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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:13 pm 
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give me CF or give me death. there is no in-between. i would never be pregnant. either abortion, or suicide.
i am more than a uterus!

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 Post subject: Re: "Children of Men"
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:16 am 
Old Topic but breeders are curious about this, I guess.

I applaud CarryOn for seeing through this 'innocent' question.

Well, now we're on Fantasy Dystopia turf, I would like to ask breeders like OP:

Would YOU like to live under a dictatorship if it was the only chance for you and your family to survive?
A society where your children would have to work their ass off in factories under horrible conditions?
A society where your children would be culled if they did not match the Goverment Standards?

Would you do it?


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