First, I would appreciate if you didn't shorten my name. I'm 33 years old and was raised by a woman I believe considered herself a feminist in her time. I am not oblivious to history and I find it rather insulting that you assume I am. People who disagree with you are not automatically uneducated or ignorant. Whether intentional or not, your use of a diminutive form of my name paired with a lecture is condescending.

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You know me, always like to savor that last shot before popping the heatsink.

I totally agree. Feminism today and feminism in the 60s and 70s are two different things. I follow the women's organizations in media and it's not all about how can we accommodate mommy, but unfortunately, most of what gets accepted in Washington and put into law is. I really think it's time the two separated into factions, except we are the smaller one and would lose. But I don't like supporting an organization who is merely looking for more time off for only mothers and that kind of thing. I think everyone should have the same time off, and not just for selfish reasons either. The only way women are ever going to gain full equality in the workforce is if men have to take off equal amounts of time to take care of their children. I think this is what we should be working toward, not extra time off for women, but equality in parenting, because that's the long-term solution. Most women don't even think about solving their problem within their own household, so they want the rest of the world to bend. And it's true men will never do it until their workplace suggests that they do...

This just isn't true, yes it may have been more unusual for women to be CF, but history is littered with CF females who achieved great things and they're just the ones we hear about; Florence Nightingale, Elizabeth 1. Let alone all the ordinary girls who did choose not to have kids, they may have had to excercise their choice by remaining celebate, but they did exercise that choice.

We even have posts on these boards with people taking about their great aunts etc who were CF and the 'old maid' is stuff of legend.

Women throughout history have always found ways to ensure they didn't have kids, if they didn't every prostitute gone by would be up to her armpits in them.

Feminism has done amazing things to allow that freedom of choice to become 'open' (although based on the bingoing you even have to wonder about that)........and make birth control available. But to say it didn't happen before and that a proportion of women didn't take an active role in managing their own reproduction just isn't true ....

Even the Ancient Egyptians had condoms...

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'I think that God, in creating Man, somewhat overestimated his ability'..Oscar Wilde

'Let it be awful, let it be wonderful, but let it be uncommon'.......

^^ but in order to stay CF they had to have the permission by someone, for example their parents who didn't decide to marry them off; or they had to be in a position of power like Elizabeth I. Nowadays thanks to feminism, any woman (in our society at least) can make that decision by herself.

This^

For example I knew someone in Mansoura who did not want a child but the husband did not give permission for the woman to be CF. She got stoned to death for not following the orders of her husband.

Feminism does exist in that country but it is much lower key and people are not as open about it as they are in western countries. They are not open about it due to the fact that it is common for feminist protestors to get their bones broken, have acid thrown at them and get sent to prison for declaring they are feminist.

I was going to type out a great long post on this topic, but I see that LaTormenta has saved me the trouble. I fully agree with LaT's last two posts.

There's no need to "identify" as anything. In fact, I think people's incessant need to label themselves and others causes many more problems than it solves. It's quite easy to believe in something without identifying yourself by a trendy name.

History is absolutely littered with examples of CF women. It wasn't as easy in ancient times, but it was still very much a choice. There have been various forms of birth control and abortifacents used throughout history, some more effective than others. Yes, in certain time periods women who chose to remain childless (without joining a convent) were often ostracized or faced a difficult life, but they still had the option not to breed.

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My Travel Blog - Tales from the Backpack

WOW! Totally offended here. I am 100% a radical feminist and I doubt anyone who knows me IRL would describe me as a "moron" or "misogynist". It is true that today's "fun-feminism" is totally taking the whole domination/submission culture and telling women to "just go with it" but radical feminism isn't about nutty femi-nazis. "Radical" is about getting to the ROOT of the problem-like a mathematical radical. It is about getting rid of the patriarchial notion that women play a certain role-i.e. a submissive to men. Period. That is it. If you are a women and your SO (male or female) cannot get away with telling you how to do your shit-you believe in radical feminism.

As far as labels, Gloria Steinem put it best by explaining that making "feminism" itself and ugly word is backlash from the mysoginistic thinking that held women down for so long. If you are female and you enjoy BC, the availability of abortion and a women's right to choose, the right to vote and choose your own destiny-then you are identifying with feminism. You may not like calling yourself one and that is fine. But women fought long and hard for us today to have that shit. I for one am eternally grateful. I would not be CF if not for that.

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~Sara
"Selfishness is not living ones life at one chooses to live, but is asking others to live their lives as one chooses to live" Oscar Wilde

I remember being told by a woman I worked with that "you were baptisted a catholic therefore you are a catholic, it doesn't matter what you say or what you think, once a catholic always a catholic", this was when I told her I didn't believe in God and was therefore an atheist.

I'm getting the same vibe on this thread, if you behave like X if you believe in Y you are therefore a feminist. It doesn't matter what you think, or what you do or don't call yourself, you are...so there!!

If some believe they would not have been CF without the feminist movement then I get that.....we all are aware of the push to conform to others world view and the oppression of the patriarchal society.....But, I also believe that there are plenty here who would have been CF regardless of the pervading culture.

I can't travel back in history and know what the LaT of the 1800's would have done...But I have a strong suspicion that short of being raped and tied to my bed for the duration of the pregnancy, I still would not have had kids. I would have swallowed a vat of St Johns Wort or remained celebate before I caved into that.....

I'm disappointed that there's such a dim view of women of the past, that they were wholly passive and unthinking. Surely the fact that the feminist movement and the suffragettes existed at all proves the point that their have always been freethinkers and those that worked around the norms.

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'I think that God, in creating Man, somewhat overestimated his ability'..Oscar Wilde

'Let it be awful, let it be wonderful, but let it be uncommon'.......

Personally, I don't appreciate anyone telling me what I am, what I feel or what I believe. It doesn't matter if that's a male politician or a feminist on a message board. It's the same thing and THAT is my problem with feminism.

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You know me, always like to savor that last shot before popping the heatsink.

Nobody needs to be labelled anything unless they want that labelled, people should just appreciate feminism.