Well so in my journey of I guess let's say - childlessness as opposed for fence sitting for now (I don't define as childfree as of now) I wonder about how a relationship carries on after babies.

My husband is very dear to me, and if someone told me that iit would go sour if we bred I'd definitely not do it.

So many marriages fail, lots say it changes after kids.

I'm wondering how much I would factor this in.

I guess early articulators wouldn't have this problem per se as they would look for a mate with the same veiws (do you??) But me, well its been on the cards for a while and now not.

What am I saying?
You can't put babies back, maybe the fact I do not want a baby to strain my relationship (am I wrong in saying having a baby. Then denying hubby sex as your vagina is now a baby shute and you don't feel like it any more - cruel I think quite strongly) should mean that I don't risk it at all.

Maybe I just feel smug after I saw my friend today who literally told this bloke she wanted kids before getting to know him. Surely they come after finding the right one. Smugness being her relationship seems shit ans I'm just .. Going to bed haha! Not pouncing on some guy for sperm.

Wow what a long post.
Just some thoughts.

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Just be like everybody else
Be like everybody else
To be like everybody else
I'm not like everybody else

I agree, and also would not be willing to trade a relationship with my S/O for a baby. I don't understand the people who do.

When pseudonyms Chocolata and Chocula got pregnant, I saw their relationship decline immediately. He works nights. She works days. They have zero time together. Hate each others' guts. I think they'll likely be splitsville by the time Son of Chocula is in grade school. But then again, Chocula says he's staying married because he wouldn't be able to afford child support.

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"You gotta grab life by the lips and YANK as hard as you can."

I think that those relationships that are still solid even after kids are because:

1) the couple loved each other before kids came along

and

2) BOTH really wanted to be parents, and they are approaching parenting the best they could, as a team.

Sadly a lot of people will just pick whoever happens to come along first, then proceed to have kids with them, because "that's just what you do". They think they are pleasing someone by following the Life Script, not realizing they are only hurting themselves/their spouse/children.

Funny you should post this....my cousin is getting married to a woman he admits he doesn't love, simply because "marriage is for children" and "happiness has nothing to do with it".

Uh....ok then. This is a great example of people who are settling. They CALL it a "relationship", but tell me: what will this happy union be once there is a screaming baby involved? There's so solid foundation as it is......

I can't believe how common people like my cousin are these days,though. DH's friend is another one who is doing the very same thing. Head, meet desk.

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"...hai, doggy".

" Sartre said: 'Hell is other people', but I think he was sugarcoating it"- Roseanne Barr

(warning; this is fully of assumptions and generalisations because I obviously have no actual experience, thankfully )

I suppose the relationship carries on in more of a co-parenting role, at least in the first few months/ years when the baby is at its most needy. The truth is, no matter how well behaved or quiet a child is, or no matter how much support you get from your spouse, the relationship will never be the same as it was. I guess for some people they have a shared 'bond' or experience or whatever from seeing their kids grow.

I would think (im not an expert ) that how this new relationship manages depends a lot on whether both partners are hands-on and involved, as I would imagine that one person doing all the hard work re:childcare, housework etc could lead to resentment. There may also be some sort of power balance shift in the relationship, if for example the woman becomes a SAHM. For some people this works very well, however there are men out there who believe that because they are bringing in the money, they call the shots.

Im sure there are couples out there who regain some alone time and manage to make it work in a good way...however, I have a feeling they are in the minority. Many seem to be just coping day-to-day and trying not to jump off a bridge.

Sounds fun huh?

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“I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side.”

- Bill Hicks

Just wanted to add that there seems to be prevalent thought 'out there' in the world of mums that unless you give your life 110% to raising your children, foresaking all self-interest, then you're not doing it right.

Being miserable seems to be an accepted symptom of this mommy-martyr idea, whereby the person and the relationship go to shit and both parents are unhappy and trapped, but its ok because the kids have everything they need. It's almost like this 'look how much I have sacrificed for you, I must be a great mother' (fake smile), when they are clearly drowning inside. Nobody wins when a person gives up everything they are to raise a child.

Im not for one second advocating neglect, but I would say that happy parents make good parents, and that leaving kids to fend for themselves a little won't kill them (unless its on a motorway or something ).

Not sure what I meant to say with that rant....oh yes, something along the lines of; maybe you don't have to 'give up' your relationship with your husband, it would certainly change but not necessarily be gone completely if you both took measures to ensure that 'just us' remained a priority.

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“I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side.”

- Bill Hicks

Yep, I have a friend in the same exact situation. Not only that, the kid is 1 1/2, and the wife is pushing for a second. Considering they work opposite shifts, I can't believe they even managed to procreate in the first place.

Being miserable, in general, seems to be equivocated with maturity and adulthood. I have a hunch this concept was started by parents because, let's face it, being around kids most of the time is a pretty miserable way to live your life.

"the Happy couple with kids" is morea fantasy than a reality. I've been partnered for a long while, and I'm damn sure it wouldn't have worked out if we had kids. Why? Because the couple's focus, (especially the Mother's) changes after a baby.
All the attention, affection and money a kid needs has to come from somewhere. And usually what's expendable is the romantic relationship, sadly. Not to mention that co parenting sucks. After working, getting the bills paid, domestic chores, you might have other family obligations, what's left? Nothing.
Some parents underestimate the impact kids will have on their sex life. It's not just a matter of exhaustion, etc, Can you get used to having every conversation heard, certain private moments witnessed, and having little privacy overall? Because after the kids reach school age, every sexual act will become a carefully planned affair, which probably involves getting the kids out of the house somehow. It's amazing what they can hear and realize. What would bother me enormously is having to conceal my sex acts form my children knowing they still know a lot of things (and having to smile at the same time).
However, it is all wrong. being a good parent doesn't make you a good spouse, or a good person for that matter. And it certainly doesn't make you happy, unless you have strong misguided Oediphal fantasies, which some parents develop to cope. The truth is, the moment your kids become the most important thing in your life, you've traded your relationship for kids, no matter who you are or what you think you're doing, especially if the couple was happy before and is going downhill after kids. Unfortunately, women are the usual culprits, because they tend to think about their own happiness last, and put their own needs after everyone elses's...
Yes, it's a three (or four) person relationship, as a mother of two has just said (sic), And for some couples, that can be a crowd.

It doesn't have to be that way. Unfortunately, it does more times than not. I think that the reason marriages dissolve under the stress of children is that they were not strong to begin with. It's easy to ignore the cracks in a marriage when it is based on sex and partying without the stress of children.

Of all the couples who ended up being parents, I can only think of two that held together and remained strong, and that must be a ratio of 2:300. In both cases, the couples married because they were best friends, and when the children came along, their worlds expanded to include the kids instead of revolving around them. The parents refused to stop being who they were, and also refused to let their kids be brats.

One couple is my own parents. They were older when I was born (Mom was 33, Dad was 45) and they had been married for eleven years. They didn't try to stop a pregnancy, but if it happened, yay. If it didn't, yay! I was a wanted oops. They took me to museums, libraries and rather adult movies. I was thinking like an adult at six. And they never talked to me in baby-talk. Oh, speaking to me like that was one sure way to get the old man in your face! Even pushing 50, I still feel the places my rents smacked me the few times I tried to be a brat! They wanted me in their world and by God I was going to act like I belonged there.

The other couple were best friends and literature majors. When their two kids came along, they simply expanded to include them. Those two kids are the smartest, easiest to deal with teens I've ever met. And the parents never treated us like we were defective for being CF. The son just earned a perfect score on the SAT and he said it was just because his parents read. He's working on his third published novel, as a senior in high school. His sister looks like she's going to achieve just as much. As for the parents, they still act in local theatre, the father keeps winning teacher of the year awards, and the mother has started a program to help the poor kids like reading.

That kind of thing is possible but it takes more work than most people are willing to put into it. The other 298 couples I know who have kids ... may as well get divorced now, because they will when the kids leave home and never come back.

Probably not worth the risk.

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You're the very people who said it didn't take a village to raise a child. So, get YOUR kids out of MY hut!