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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Has anyone else done anything like this? I did one for the first time after seeing a "do you want kids?" thread on another forum to do with something completely different and it got me thinking after seeing someone else do this.

I only realized at the very end:

- For someone who has been very strongly anti-reproduction for myself, I am now WAY more torn than I thought I was.

- This should surely be MUCH less about what I "want" and MUCH more about what I "should" do, in the wording of a question as big as this. This, for me, turns the "selfish" question right back around which is so often levied toward childless people in a "but isn't it selfish to not want children?" way.

Surely we should be thinking less about what we just want, and more about what we should or shouldn't do, based on a huge number of external factors which don't involve hormones, baby rabies (which I appear to be experiencing recently), etc.

So, here is my list! Only made a short time ago. I wish to make another one in maybe a couple months time to see if it changes or not. Since making my own, I've been wanting so much to see the lists of other fence-sitters!


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Reasons I don't want kids:

1. My mental health is terrible. Is it nature, nurture, genetic? Idk, probably mostly upbringing, but I don't want to pass any of this shit on. I wouldn't wish the shit I've suffered on my worst enemy, let alone any kid I have.

2. I have way too many hobbies, interests, ambitions, and things I want to do with my life. Idc how many people say you can be both a career woman AND a full-time mother, children take up a lot of time, and I don't think any kid deserves a part-time parent.

3. I like sex. A lot.

4. I read the news. Are things looking bright for future generations? Not exactly. Are things even looking bright right now? Um fuck no! Looks like we're on the brink of all kinds of horrors tbh. I don't want to shove another human into this shithole mess.

5. I already have enough body image issues. Do I want a post-pregnancy body on top of that? No.

6. I really enjoy the time I spend with my boyfriend. To quote something I read in a baby book from a mother, it was to the effect of: "My partner and I used to spend so much time together. Now, we may as well live on opposite sides of the world".

7. How many kids are there in the world who are in foster homes? How many children already exist in the world who don't have parents? I think we could do with adopting more of those, or preventing unwanted pregnancies.

8. There are already too many people in the world, and there are already too many people in the world who are going through various types of Hell. - How many adult sons and daughters are abuse victims, trauma survivors, terminally ill, addicts, homeless, impoverished, etc, etc? I'd like to spend more time helping people in the world who already exist and are already suffering.

9. Having a special needs child would kill me. I couldn't do it. It would be a living nightmare from the depths of Hell. I'd probably just kill myself. Opening myself up to the risk of having one by getting pregnant isn't something I want to do at all.

10. The concept of pregnancy disgusts me.

11. The concept of childbirth horrifies me. [added 29/12/17]: And if your vagina breaks, chances are you're in for a terrible ride. - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/com ... -rectocele

12. Testimonies from parents make the idea seem even worse. Even the good ones.

13. My experiences around parents with children make the idea seem even worse. Even the good ones.

14. I imagine my child becoming a teenager: calling me "uncool" (or whatever slang they'll end up using), being constantly moody and unbearable with me, but then begging me for some massively overpriced clothes or whatever, that I absolutely hate and can't understand, but have to spend a fuckton of my money on.... And being happy with that.

15. As of 2015, it cost £229,251 to raise a child from birth to 21 in my country. That cost has risen by 63 per cent since 2003.

16. I'm someone who is easily affected by the emotions of others. If my child cried like Hell on their first day of nursery, then I guess no nursery. I imagine my child getting their heart broken for the first time.... for the 2nd time, 3rd time... bullied, beaten up, attacked.... sanctioned, laid off, divorced... maybe they'll even get a terminal illness and die, who the fuck knows? You open yourself up to the possibility of everything unimaginably horrific. I think I would experience everything shitty and heartbreaking and terrible in life a second time over. I'm not strong enough for that, even with the good times, but I don't want to have to be. I've struggled enough with just myself.

17. I like alone time. I need alone time to function.

18. I have a history of mental illness and personality disorders. I can imagine myself being susceptible to pregnancy complications, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis...

19. I don't want to get married because who knows if I'll be with my partner forever? I don't want children for a similar reason. I don't know that I'm going to be with my partner forever. I know how break-ups can affect children.




Reasons I want children:

1. I think I'd make a good parent.

2. I think my partner would make a great dad.

3. Kids love me...

4. ...and I seem to actually be really good with them! Most kids seem to naturally gravitate toward me. Even babies seem enchanted with me somehow. The amount of kids who have told me how much they love me after only meeting me once is... disturbing honestly. I have a baby face, long purple hair; I love laughing, playing and being silly; I love and collect toys and plushies, get genuinely excited going to toy shops, watch cartoons pretty much every day, have a lot of physical energy to run and jump and dance about, and I make fantasy art about mermaids, unicorns, fairies, aliens, animals and space that a lot of kids really like, so I usually end up inadvertently "babysitting" at events and parties, dancing with kids, playing games, drawing pictures with them, etc. I take experiences like this as a deeper, richer compliment than most compliments from most adults because I see kids as more genuine - if they don't like you, they won't go near you.

5. I don't want to die alone, and I'm so scared about not being taken care of or loved or visited by anyone in my old age while I'm dying. My boyfriend is 10 years older than me, as are most of my friends. Both of my siblings are at least 10 years older than me. The chances are, I actually WILL die alone. I've seen people die alone. It's horrific. I don't trust people enough to take care of me in my old age. I will likely kill myself before I become terminally ill or get too old.

6. I love big family events (among healthy, loving families anyway). I love the idea of being an old grandma who has her kids and their boy/girlfriends and grandkids all over for Christmas and make them all a big meal and we all play games together.


///////////////////////////


Last edited by Faeryn on Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:47 pm 
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I can't help but notice that none of your pro-kid reasons include that you think you'd actually ENJOY raising kids. I don't just mean playing with kids (that's the easy part), I mean every part of taking care of them. When they're having temper tantrums and crying fits in public. When they're sick and puking all over themselves. When they're selfish, bratty, greedy little asshole teenagers. Etc.

Saying that you think you'd be good at something isn't the same as actually wanting to do it. Maybe I'd be a fantastic trash collector- the best trash collector in the world, maybe. But that doesn't mean I would want to do it, or enjoy it.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:00 am 
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Maura wrote:
I can't help but notice that none of your pro-kid reasons include that you think you'd actually ENJOY raising kids. I don't just mean playing with kids (that's the easy part), I mean every part of taking care of them. When they're having temper tantrums and crying fits in public. When they're sick and puking all over themselves. When they're selfish, bratty, greedy little asshole teenagers. Etc.

Saying that you think you'd be good at something isn't the same as actually wanting to do it. Maybe I'd be a fantastic trash collector- the best trash collector in the world, maybe. But that doesn't mean I would want to do it, or enjoy it.


It seems to be honestly pretty rare that really many parents enjoy every single part of taking care of their children. Many "testimonies" from even parents who are more than happy with their decision to reproduce seem to read a bit like this: "My life has been hell since giving birth. I have no time to myself, I hardly sleep, I don't do anything I want to do anymore, and spend most of my time cleaning up messes I didn't make. But I wouldn't change it for the world". So where that sort of thing is concerned, it isn't that they necessarily "enjoy" doing those things, but that they're an act of love.

I don't enjoy it when my partner gets ill and I have to take care of him, but that doesn't mean that I won't do it, that I'm not good at it, or that it isn't worth being with him because of certain responsibilities that come with being with someone. I think there's a certain kind of pleasure (which isn't enjoyment) that you get from expressing love and care in instances like that, even though you don't like the situation, but just because you know someone you love is being taken care of and getting their needs met.

I think I actually spent a bigger portion of my time thinking about reasons I don't want children for this list, because I have baby rabies but logically DON'T think I could be a parent, so this is kind of more about me trying to put myself off despite having a biological / hormonal urge. A lot of cognitive dissonance has affected my "choice" to be childless which are out of my power: health, money, life situation, swaying me more towards the "ew! children?! no thanks!" route, even though I think really, deep down, I'd have wanted children if my life had gone more in order. I wish I could put myself off completely.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:26 am 
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Hello!this is my first ever post!i actually registered because what you wrote reflects a lot of stuff that I've been thinking recently. I'm kind of tormented by the 'should we,shouldn't we' question.at the moment I'm a firm 'no',and it feels really good.
I think what it boils down to is that being childfree is not the usual route to take. living in an unusual way is difficult,because what you do is always called into question-not just by everyone else,but by yourself.at least, that's where most of my doubts come from. My list looks very similar to yours...
PRO;i like to be part of a large,fun family.i like there to be lots of us,all joking and laughing together. I want to give my parents grandchildren because I love them(both my sisters are also cf,and i don't know if I want our branch of the family to be a total dead end).unlike many here,i genuinely like kids older than 4. i actually work with them.also,like you,i often find myself hanging out with the kids at parties and things-what would you rather talk about,weird pond creatures or the state of the housing market?however,i suspect that my affinity with kids comes from still kind of being one,and my relationship with them is more friend than authority figure. if you were a parent you would need to have that authority. This website has really helped me come up with some proper,moral...
CONS: Yours were really convincing,but also: if you have a kid,your purpose in life is decided for you.if you don't,you have to think of something else to do with all that time,which is a scary thought for a lot of people but which i actually find kind of exciting. You're right about the world going to shit. I don't want to die feeling worried about my offspring and how they're going to survive.lastly,i used to know this really great couple.they had everything -a great relationship,an amazing social life,the money to enjoy it all...then in their 40's they had a kid.a really obnoxious kid.and now they're just tired and stressed all the time,and it's brought out the worst side of them. THAT put me off!
Sorry for the long post,I'm almost done.my last thought,though,is that until you have a kid the decision is not permanent,and you owe it to yourself to constantly review it.keep making those lists and comparing them. You have to make the decision that suits YOU.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:31 pm 
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I've made these lists and they go something like this:

Con: pregnancy sounds like a living hell, especially with my many minor but chronic health issues; I don't want to ruin my body (especially fearful of urinary or god forbid, fecal incontinence); I need lots of sleep to function at all; I'm an introvert and hate the thought of forced socialization with other parents; I have ADHD and anxiety, which would both affect my ability to parent and could be passed on to a child; the world is a very scary place environmentally speaking; I generally dislike babies and toddlers (love school-age kids and even teenagers); I'm single; I'm not close to my parents; daycare is fucking expensive.

Pro: I really enjoy kids once they can talk intelligibly and use the bathroom by themselves; I'd enjoy answering questions like "why is the sky blue?" and "where do babies come from?"; I want a family of my own, since I have little in common with most of my relatives. Honestly, if I had nieces and nephews or stepchildren, I think I'd be quite content to not have children, but I'm currently single and an only child.

If I do become a parent, it will be through adoption, since I have no desire to pass on mental health issues, be pregnant, or create new people given the current state of the world.

Faeryn, I can definitely relate to what you said about becoming a parent had circumstances been different. If I had better health, a partner, a closer family, and had established myself in my career earlier in life,I probably would've gone for it.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:10 am 
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Thanks to everyone who has responded so far! Really enjoying reading these.

I woke up this morning to another reason against:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/com ... -rectocele

This one's going straight on the list!


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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Dear god...


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:13 am 
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I never even thought about such list. I will compile it for myself too to weigh the pros and cons

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