Hi,
something i was wondering about. Women who have tried to have children but for some reason or other could not (either she or her partner couldn't) - are they also considered CF? i mean of course those who haven't gone onto adopt or by some other means, to have a child.
I mean those who have tried and then failed and then have now come to accept that they are CF or childless...
I wonder how we can embrace them , here? in our real lives, because it is something different from voluntarily choosing to be CF, which i assume the majority of us are....?
i got to thinking of this because we always focus on the women who have children vs those who choose not too, and i assume there is another huge group who are in the middle.ie infertile couples....
it just must be so sad for them, i can see us CF here go through alot just to stay strong as CF, but to those who can by no means have children (but did at sometime want them) what is the journey they go through and wondered if anyone knew anyone who had gone through this??
(hope this post makes sense!)

There was a discussion a couple of weeks back on Britgirl about this very subject. The link is here : http://thebritgirl.com/2008/07/17/child ... /#comments.

It was interesting that pretty much everyone agreed that the major difference between childless and childfree is the state of mind that accompanies the decision. Childless people still want kids, and still yearn for them, while childfree people may come to that state by being originally childless - but have worked through the issues and are actively pursuing other things in their lives. Most of us come to childfree voluntarily, but not all.

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"Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is that you're stupid and make bad decisions."

I agree that it's a state of mind. And that's all I have to say about that.

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I'd rather be nine people's favorite thing than a hundred people's ninth favorite thing. - [title of show]

They're very different groups...I'm pretty careful until I work out (if ever) whether someone is CF or CL...and given I don't ask people questions about their reproductive business usually, I just remain careful.
I mentioned recently the CL woman that launched into a tirade after hearing that my DH & I were not going to have kids - she had gone through IVF several times and had finally been told to go away - it wasn't going to work for her.
I can see though, when a CL person moves on emotionally and starts to assess their life, "What will I do with my life now?" there could be some common ground.
I'm sure many CL people actually seek out CF people at some point - either to get away from families and the reminder of what might have been or, simply to explore CF living...."It is possible to have a happy life without kids - look at Deborah, Pikasam, swissotter! etc.
So, at a certain point the CL can move closer to us - we just got to the same place taking a very different route....

And the route of how we arrive at decisions makes us who we are. Letting go of a dream and accepting that you cannot conceive is very different than choosing it voluntarily. It comes with a whole lot of baggage.

hi deborah, very well put! i think perhaps my OP was not so clear. I was thinking more along the lines of
A are childless women who have tried without success to conceive
B are CF women (never wanted children at any point in their lives. ie. most of us here)
C - women who were A but now want to embrace the CF lifestyle,they no longer will try to have a child by any means and now they feel alone, depressed and perhaps come across a site like ours.

surely we should welcome them, no? and by age 40++ or so we can all be considered CF anyway, or if some still consider themselves CL (childless, which i think is not really a nice description...) perhaps we can "bring them into the fold " - so to speak!

ana

Exactly!

I think CL people should absolutley be wecome here because they face the same types of prejudice that CF people do. Plus, there is that baggage. They may not relate to a lot of the things we vent about, but they may need support and understand some of it. Eventually, if they are not able to have children, adopt, foster or whatever and come to the decision to stop trying, becoming CF (rather than remaining CL) would be a very healthy thing for someone in that situation to do.

Hopefully, CL members can do just that. Realize there are other ways to spend time with children, be satisfied with that, perhaps pick up some new hobbies, make some new friends, and get on with their lives. Being CF for someone who was CL at first might be the healthiest, best place for them. I hope we can help someone in need to reach that healthy place.

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~Kim
"To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive." ~Robert Louis Stevenson

I would say this describes me somewhat, and I feel much more comfortable with CF people than CL. I don't really care what label is applied to me.

When I got to the point where reality was sinking in, that my budget did not really factor in huge fertility clinic expenses, it was making my marriage more challenging, my reasons were questionable, I didn't want it badly enough, etc., I went searching on the web for support. The infertility websites were not my cup of tea at all.

They just irritated me. It struck me as really wallowing in something that is elective. It's not required or necessary to have a child. Plenty of people live perfectly happy lives without procreating. It's offensive to me to say otherwise. I didn't want a bunch of people to be miserable with. I wanted to talk to the other kind of people, the ones who are able to accept the life they have and be grateful for that.

Thinking about it raised a lot of questions for me. What is CL anyway? If it means they want a baby but are infertile, why not adopt? Why do CL people even have to exist? There are plenty of children in the world already who desperately need homes, but these people would rather mope around and feel sorry for themselves?? It struck me as very selfish, and I simply could not relate. Are they CL because they can't have a bio baby and that's all they want? There are plenty of people in this world who are medically unable to bear a child. You have to accept your limitations and not dwell on the negative. A lot of people suffer much worse disabilities, like being paralyzed or missing limbs, or being in chronic pain. I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but Infertility just strikes me as one of those things that is mostly going to bother someone that much if they have nothing better to do, or bigger/more urgent to be concerned about. I have little patience for these kinds of people. If you're that upset about it, adopt.

Bottom line, I find CF people on the whole much more intelligent, interesting, and inspiring.

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distant relative of a lima bean

frieda

That is the crux of why a lot (not all) CL people irritate me. Don't complain, if a child is something you must have in your life, adopt. Your genes are not so special that only a bio baby will do. I cannot stand the self-pity.

swissotter

In my experience, women who want kids and (for whatever reason) haven't had them don't take terribly kindly to CF folks. I mean, here we are saying "Wow, so glad I dodged THAT bullet...so glad I don't have to deal with THAT mess...", etc. Meanwhile, the very problems we're celebrating having avoided are problems that they wanted to have.

I ran into this problem in real life at No Kidding events. There were plenty of straight-ahead CF folks there, but a few "I'm not a parent YET" folks and a few CL folks. It didn't work...everyone was walking on eggshells and nobody felt comfortable.

It's a complex situation, for sure.